Kofi Forson
December 2020

Dan + Claudia Zanes : Love – Music – Social Isolation

Dan E. Zanes and Claudia Eliaza Zanes are the couple behind the Social Isolation Song Series that was featured on Facebook and Instagram during the lock-down, which involved daily postings of their video performances drawing on their wide and varied interest in music and song. Dan E. Zanes’ earlier history in the musical genre of rock and roll brought him an awakening when his former band The Del Fuegos spontaneously combusted. Having moved to New York and become a father, he engaged in communal performances with other parents. This led to a series of albums and collaborations with performers like Sheryl Crow and Lou Reed, and so many others. He is known as The Duke of Folk and has won many awards for his records, including a Grammy. His involvement with children’s music and family entertainment encouraged a new career. Along the way he has met the love of his life, Claudia Eliaza Zanes, a Haitian/American jazz vocalist, who has toured extensively to places like Germany, Russia and Africa. She is also a certified music therapist. Together they perform what they call sensory friendly music, accommodating an all ages audience.  Their projects together include the “Leadbelly, Baby!” CD for Smithsonian/Folkways and the Kennedy Center Commission for “Night Train 57: A Sensory Friendly Comic Folk Opera.”

Kofi Forson: Well, Dan and Claudia, this is like a meeting of the minds, hearts and souls for me. Happy we can do this. How are the both of you doing? You call Baltimore home now. How is Baltimore? Given the lock-down and quarantine, do you get a sense of the city? Or are you hunkered down without a sense of the outside world?

Dan E. Zanes: Hey there Kofi! It’s a pleasure to be hanging out with you like this. Yeah man, Baltimore has been our home for just about a year. We moved here from Brooklyn, New York. I feel like we need to add the “New York” part because there’s a Brooklyn here too. We had a few months of looking around before lock-down and there was no doubt that we’d made the right move. This is a city full of beautiful people doing on-the-ground work to meet the challenges that are plaguing America today. Under typical circumstances we would have seen a lot more, but we’ve been taking the sheltering in place seriously.

Claudia Eliaza Zanes: Hi Kofi! It’s great to be having this conversation with you as well…yes, we moved here from Brooklyn last November and we are absolutely loving it here. We’ve had some opportunities to explore and to meet people doing meaningful work here in the community. This might not seem like a big deal, but it is: we have some seriously great public radio here — WEAA out of Morgan State University. Black perspective radio, something we didn’t find in Brooklyn except for the small local Haitian stations in our old neighborhood.

Forson: Your Social Isolation Song Series has been a staple in my days since lock-down began in March. I think one of my comments on the thread conversation was, “It feels like I’m a kid waiting to watch my favorite television show. My eyes are glued to the computer, focused on the both of you, watching your every move.” You’ve truly brought joy into my life. What is the origin of the series? How did the idea come about?

Dan: First of all I have to tell you that one of the blessings has been the connections we’ve made with some of the people who have been tuning in, starting with you! I remember reading a few of your comments and thinking, “Wow, he’s really listening. Listening and taking the time to write thoughtful commentary!” It’s a funny way to develop friendships, but hey man, in 2020 all things are possible, good and bad. And it’s made us feel very connected during a time when isolation was really a possibility. And then at some point your artwork started appearing!! More to celebrate. And we’ve found that it’s important to celebrate everything worthy this year.

To answer your question, the origins were a quick and easy conversation. “Lock-down? Okay, how about we serve up music every day? OK, cool, let’s do it. What song shall we do first? “Going Down to Tampa”? Great, let’s do it in the front room.” It was kinda quick and easy, no big plan. One of many conversations that day, but definitely the most significant. We figured maybe we’d do it for a month or so.

Forson: What is the selection of songs process like? What goes into your decision?

Dan: In the beginning it was easy, any song seemed to be appropriate. I mean, it was such a new experience: Lock-down! Some days we wanted songs that had an emotional core, other times we wanted to entertain kids, some days we felt compelled to give a nod to the grandparents and get jazzy. We think of ourselves as the band in the corner of the kitchen at a family reunion — sometimes you sing for the young folks, sometimes the elders, as long as we never leave anyone behind, we’re good. When things heated up after the killing of George Floyd, it didn’t feel right to sing cock-a-doodle-do. That’s when we started writing more and digging deeper into the songs from past social justice movements. On the days we couldn’t find the song to say what was on our hearts, we’d literally sit at the table until we had written the song that articulated our feelings. And going back to WEAA, it was the “Today with Dr. Kaye” and “For the Culture” shows that really kept us informed and inspired.

Forson: In one of the videos, there’s a moment where, Dan, you try to coax Claudia into doing another take. How patient are you, Claudia, during the process of videotaping the performance? Obviously, a lot of work goes into each performance. It’s more than just set up a camera, sit and perform. What is it like to work with Dan on each videotaping process?

Claudia: Well, as I like to say, if you really want to get to know your partner try recording music and making music with them every single day for several months. You know, it’s been an eye-opening experience for Dan and me. I think that it’s opened up our hearts in a major way. It calls for high levels of patience. I mean we can get a solid performance of some songs in 2 to 3 takes and others need, you know, more than I can even count, so it really depends on the day. But all in all, I would say that our vision is to put out the best music we can and to remember that everything we play, every note, everything that we say, leaves a mark, so we just want to make sure we’re representing ourselves in the best light. And to always remember that we’re here to offer something positive and useful whether it’s a tickling song or a tribute to Breonna Taylor.

Forson: What is the process like? When does the idea of picking a song and videotaping take shape? How do you build your day around the production element of presenting the video on Facebook?

Claudia: Each day was a clean slate. In the beginning, songs seem to just come to us pretty naturally, but I’d say as the atmosphere in the nation changed and the call for racial justice became louder, we started thinking more deeply about the songs that we were choosing and why we were choosing them. We really wanted to speak to what was happening, to sing songs that were relevant and uplifting. Some days we just knew we needed to sing a certain song and other days it took a little more digging. And as I mentioned, we ended up writing a lot of our own songs to really represent and reflect the things that we wanted to say.

Dan is a visual person, and he is very good at art directing, so he was pretty much responsible for the color patterns in the background. I would say I probably ended up creating only nine or ten out of two hundred. We have so many cool fabrics that we’ve gathered during our travels, and we have been holding on to them for years, and so it’s nice to be able to really put them to use.

I have a soap company called CLEO Soaps…yes, Kofi, I’m a soap maker! And so it worked out well that Dan was willing to do so much set up. I was upstairs creating the summer and fall lines most days.

Forson: What does it mean to you, Dan, to be able to do this? It has taken on a life of its own. Organically, how has the presenting of the video performances to the general public, along with the way it has been received, the comments, donations been like for you? How has all of this brought joy, perhaps luck to your life? It must be the coolest thing you’ve felt since falling in love?

Dan: At one point I think Claudia was feeling like she wanted to take a break, and it would have been really tough for me. It sounds kind of selfish as I’m saying it but the song series was kind of the only thing keeping me on track. I was even a little surprised at how passionate I suddenly became! And Claudia was committed, I don’t mean to say she wanted out, but it was a very challenging summer for a lot of people, and that energy doesn’t always inspire everyone to sing and play.

Claudia has many more ways to process things than I do. She’s much more evolved. I’m basic — play some music and try to get centered. And now that we’ve hit the 200 song mark, I can say that this was probably the best artistic experience of my life, and that’s saying a lot.

I’ve been so blessed all along the way but not always as focused as I’d like. Imagine that you’re a songwriter and you get to collaborate every day with the person you love with all your heart. You can wake up and there’s nothing. Listen to WEAA and hear that the world is a mess but there’s hope. Start writing a song together. Sing in harmony, and send the results out to people in the world before dinner. That’s an outrageous life. And it’s led to other work, that’s good too. These are challenging times for touring musicians such as ourselves.

Forson: What does this mean to you, Claudia, to be able to share your talents using Facebook to present a video performance to the general public every day since March? What has kept you going?

Claudia: Well, if there is any lesson than what this pandemic has taught me it’s that we are all — we know this and it sounds cliché — but we are all so deeply connected. I think my greater passion and love for humanity is really what kept me going. Having a purpose in these times when it’s so natural to want to go inward, when we’re feeling conflicted. Not all of us are open about the challenges we are facing, so to have the power of music as a way to process, and as a way to feel and express and stay connected to others is a tremendous gift. It was also important to express and share through writing as well. So the comments that accompanied the videos also became important.

Forson: Well, as the world knows by now, you are a husband and wife team. Yours, your marriage, is quite the celebration. That two people can be such a perfect match. Talk to me about having found the love of your life?

Dan: Claudia is the person I was looking for my entire life. I had given up on ever being able to share music in this romantic way but it was always the dream. I grew up listening to Ian and Sylvia, and to me that was the sound. There’s something else that happens when you’re in love, when you’re in tune. And even if we didn’t play a note together, Claudia would make my heart sing each and every day.

Claudia: I never knew that life could be this rich. I thought it would be great to be with someone who appreciates music, but to be with someone who lives and breathes music like I do is a deep spiritual experience.

Forson: I think what seems almost improbable is how your musical talents feed into each other so perfectly. Talk to me about the accessibility of your concerts. You call your performances sensory friendly. What do you mean by that?

Dan: In general terms, Sensory Friendly means that the venue has made the effort to create conditions that are more comfortable for more people. The rules are somewhat relaxed (and in England, Sensory Friendly programming is actually referred to as “relaxed” programming). The ushers are asked to let people walk around if that’s what they need to do. The lights and sound are moderate. House lights might be up a bit more so people can move around safely. And there’s language that indicates that people can come as they are — that is important. We’ve heard from people with kids who are on the autism spectrum that going out to a performance can be challenging if their child has reactions that are considered “atypical.” Nobody wants to be shushed or stared at or just misunderstood. SF programming helps open the doors a little wider.

Forson: Claudia, your background in music is a great addition to this. You are a certified music therapist and mentor. Tell me a bit about that history or “her” story, (laughter) and how the psychology of this helps you achieve the overall method and planning for your performances. What is the job requirement of a music therapist?

Claudia: Music therapy is really a relationship between the board certified therapist and the clients or patients. Music is the medium that is used to address non-musical goals. Music can be used to help a child work on academic skills, it can also be used to help individuals in dealing with anxiety, stress, depression. It can also be used to enhance expressive and receptive communication. It can be used to help with breathing regulation, and with gross and fine motor skills. Music sparks both the left and right sides of the brain. To be a music therapist, I believe one should possess a few different skills. One must be musical and able to be flexible in both the music and in the therapeutic relationship. I also believe that listening skills are a must. You must be able to listen to the needs of your client. They may be able to tell you what those needs are, but what if that isn’t possible? It’s the therapist’s job to find other ways to get that information. Listening with eyes and ears are wonderful skills.

So, in many ways, the music is used to process feelings. As we think about things in 2020, when anxiety is through the roof and mental health issues are front and center and people are forced to deal with things that they might not know how to fully deal with, music can be a way to process the emotions.

So my music therapy background definitely informs me when it comes to performing. I think that when we walk into spaces and look at accessibility and inclusivity, we try to create entry points within the music, and I think that Dan and I do this very naturally. We’re also making sure that people have something to do in the music. There’s participation as well as observation.

Dan talked about the ways in which we work with venues to create a sensory friendly environment. I think that in 2020 sensory friendly is more important than ever. And the beauty is, it’s much easier to reach folks directly online. We could potentially put on several performances within a day and have folks from all over the planet join us.

Dan and I spend time thinking about the ways in which we can draw people into active music making. We tend to find something in the music that we can offer to the audience as a part that they can own and thus feel connected to us and the rest of the folks at the virtual show.

Forson: One project you’ve worked on together is the “Leadbelly, Baby!” CD for Smithsonian/Folkways. How was that project imagined and brought to reality? It truly is a groundbreaking project, considering the people and musicians involved.

Dan: Leadbelly was my inspiration from the earliest years. I consider him the architect of modern family music. I always felt that there was too much emphasis on his jail time and not enough focus on the music he made for young people. I think he was our greatest folksinger in the 20th century and racism played a huge role in stifling his career both before and after his death. It was an honor to pay tribute and also to have the full support of the Leadbelly estate and his family.

Forson: Claudia, what part did you play in the masterminding of this project. How were you involved? How did it feel to work in the company of so many known musicians?

Claudia: When I met Dan, he was well into this project, and I remember walking down to the basement where he had all these loose pieces of paper, and I would see names like Valerie June on this tune and Chuck D. on that tune, and it was just cool to see the people that were a part of it. It might’ve been before we actually started dating, he invited me to record on one song, which was “New York City”, and so I recorded that with him in the basement. When he ended up going to Washington, DC to finish up with the mixing, he invited me to come along, and I got to lay down some extra vocals on some of the other tracks. It was awesome to be a part of it and very exciting to spend time at Folkways.

Forson: This led to the Kennedy Center Commission for “Night Train 57: A Sensory Friendly Comic Folk Opera.” This is more or less, the Dan E. Zanes and Claudia Eliaza Zanes tour de force. What was the original intention for the project? Your hearts were attached to the project in so many ways. Can you share some of your most memorable moments?

Dan: Working with the Kennedy Center was a master class in Sensory Friendly presenting. They wrote the book on it, and their generosity towards us was incredible. We were well taken care of so our heads could be in the creation and not the nuts and bolts of production. Betty Seigel, Roger Ideishi, and David Kilpatrick guided us through the process from the very beginning. It’s THE KENNEDY CENTER!!!! They commissioned America’s first Sensory Friendly Comic Folk Opera! Brian MacDevitt directed it. He’s known for his work as a lighting designer (“Book of Mormon”, “Joe Turner’s Come and Gone”) and he gave us way more help than we deserved. And he kept it funny.

Claudia: Coming into this project was kind of like being a kid in a candy store. It was incredible to be around so many professionals and to have access to so many resources. It’s a beautiful thing when you can come in with your creative ideas and have the support of experts in the world of sensory friendly there to help bring that vision to life. That incredible support allowed the show to take shape, and “Night Train 57” is the show it is today because of that all-hands-on-deck approach.

Forson: Another project which fused your talents was the Quarto Group publishing deal to do the “Dan Zanes’ House Party: A Family Roots Music Treasury” book. This is a celebration of music and songs you both love. What both of you are capable of doing and you do so well is bringing into the world unifying means to collaborate. How is the element of collaboration important to you, both in production working with known musicians like Father Goose and the virtual means of family members at home and elsewhere enjoying these songs with you?

Dan: It’s the blessing in all of this. When I played in a rock band, we never collaborated with other musicians and we missed out. My collaboration with Father Goose took me from being an average family music maker to someone doing something very different. We knew we were on a track that was ours alone. It showed me that if the name of the game is to be creative it’s going to require a collective spirit. We’ve been collaborating on a series of videos for the CAP/UCLA Tune In Festival and our songs are coming alive!! In ways we could never imagine. It requires faith, but because our duo is strong, we can take it out into the world.

The book was an effort to reflect that spirit. And if we’re ever going to dismantle white supremacy culture, we have to collaborate! On its own, European/American culture, when it’s treated as the default, or the pinnacle of achievement, can be quite unsatisfying and certainly very limited.

Claudia: Being with Dan I have learned to grow as an individual and to rise to different occasions. This songbook pushed me and stretched me in beautiful ways. I had to tap into many of the skills that I developed at Berklee College of Music — skills that needed some dusting off for sure — and it challenged me to get back to notation, but by the time I was done I was thrilled with the outcome. Collaboration to me is everything. I think collaborating in music is a reflection of what it is to work together out in the world and how important it is to experience different perspectives. All of it makes for a better democracy. It makes for a better existence when we can work together and celebrate one another and appreciate the different things that folks have to contribute. The music comes alive in new and exciting ways.

Forson: Dan, you escaped my horizon after all those years performing and touring as a rock and roll musician. I later read an article about you, heard as well on an NPR news segment that you were making music for children. I never could fathom how you found your way into making music for all ages. What was the epiphany? Was it becoming a father? Finding a renewed love of music within a community of other parents? How was living in New York central to meeting other musicians, which helped further your plans along?

Dan: I made a solo record around the time my daughter was born in 1994, and although I thought it was my big comeback, only 12 or 13 people seemed to agree with me. That was the best thing that could have happened! I started recording all-ages songs for the families in the neighborhood and put them on a cassette. I called it “Rocket Ship Beach.” No one was interested in my solo record but the cassette was hot! I decided to trade my cold pop career for family music. Best thing I could have done! I felt like a useful member of society for the first time. And I felt creatively liberated, no need to sing songs about old girlfriends and drunkenness. I could get back to simpler more meaningful themes and not worry about what anybody thought or if radio would play the music. The less uptight I became the more success I had.

Forson: Watching you and Claudia on your Social Isolation Song Series has inspired a new respect in me for you as a music historian, as well as your varied interest in music. What inspires your songwriting? How has touring extensively over the years activated your interest in music from sea shanties to high-life music? How does researching a song’s history help you enjoy the song even more?

Dan: Absolutely. But I learned that while doing family music. I didn’t care so much about context when I was in a rock band. Is the song killer? Great, let’s play it. But it’s important to understand where things come from. I grew up, like many white folks, with a sense that I could dip in and out of any style I wanted to without understanding the background. A musical buffet, we can take what we want! I don’t agree with that now. I think that I have to know where things are from, and if I’m going to borrow it’s important to acknowledge the source in one way or another.

Music has been my way of understanding the world. I was always very provincial, but music was the window to the world outside. And eventually the window became a door. Claudia and I are good at collaborating. The Dan Zanes and Friends band was too. It makes traveling really exciting when you know there are going to be guests all along the way.

Forson: Claudia, you’re Haitian/American, born in New Hampshire. How did American folk music and cultural history of Haiti merge in your family life growing up? For your parent’s anniversary you spoke of times when the music of Kenny Rogers played in your family’s home. How did you, as someone with a Haitian background make the connection to American music?

Claudia: I come from a very musical household. Music was something that was played on the daily, my father took his music collection very seriously. He had a lot of traditional Haitian records, but we also loved a lot of traditional and contemporary gospel music and country music (hence the Kenny Rogers song we played in the series). I was aware of my Haitian roots because my parents always sang the songs, and a lot of times folks would come to our house to have what we call reunion de priére, which is when folks come together to pray and to sing. So the house was always filled with conversation and music and laughter. My parents encouraged my brother and I to get involved in music at school and church, so I was singing in both Kreyol and English from a very early age.

Forson: Please if you can share your memories of Haiti, from the music, to the food and its people.

Claudia: I love this question Kofi… As a child, I always sensed a great pride that came from my parents when they talked about growing up in Haiti. They would laugh and share the stories of their youth. My Aunt Elsie is one of the funniest women I know! She too would chime in and share funny stories (known as blag) that would have us all snorting and laughing. Haitians are TRUE storytellers. From the sound effects to the actual story, and whether you spoke Kreyol or not, you would be laughing as if English was being spoken.

As I got older I would see and hear negative things about Haiti in the media. It seemed that all folks wanted to share about my beloved country was that it was the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere laden with corruption and crime. But that wasn’t the Haiti that I knew and loved. I started going to Haiti when I was under 1 year old. I would go for a few weeks at a time. I remember distinctly a trip I took when I was eight years old, and at that age I remember spending time with my grandma Rezia. It was beautiful because my grandmother spoke Kreyol only, and it was an opportunity for me to practice my Kreyol. I would cook with her and she would play with me. She sang and prayed with me a lot too! I remember hanging clothes outside on the line with her. The colors of the clothes as droplets of water hit the ground is an image that still stays with me.

I also remember cooking with my aunties, sometimes there would be so many of us in the house eating and laughing, it was almost deafening because there was so much life happening around me. It wouldn’t be uncommon for someone to start singing or storytelling. Next thing you know, folks are gathering to partake in the song or story. There was beauty in how naturally everyone was a part of the happenings. If you were there, you too were an active part of what was going on. I don’t ever recall anyone off in a corner singing by themselves. Everything was done collectively. That went for the cooking, the cleaning and of course the music making. Community was and continues to be the thread of the Haitian experience.

Forson: I guess one thing the three of us share besides love of music is that we have all experienced New Hampshire. I spent a week in New Hampshire on vacation with a love interest who was born there. I remember us leaving the bus station and her mother driving us to a biker restaurant. It was quite intimidating. The looks I got, being the only black person present. Subject of race is so relevant in our world today. How do the both of you as an interracial couple live out the meaning of true love, unified, destined, and blessed, given the history of cases like Loving vs. Virginia, where The Supreme Court struck down bans on interracial marriage as unconstitutional. How important is it to not take for granted our ability to love and continue to honor roads and steps taken to bring into the fold a bit of freedom?

Dan: Loving vs. Virginia happened in my lifetime! When I think about how much joy systemic racism has suppressed, I’m saddened and also grateful that Claudia and I were able to navigate enough to get together and stay together. But I think the odds are against most interracial couples. We white folks are, for the most part, so deeply conditioned in white supremacy culture that most of us can’t really comfortably operate in a loving respectful long-term relationship with someone who doesn’t look like us. It’s possible of course, but it requires a lot of work. Man, oh man, I wouldn’t want it any other way though. The idea that my internalized racism would prevent me from being able to be with Claudia is heartbreaking. So I try to stay on the anti-racist path, one day at a time.

Claudia: I’m grateful to have been raised by two loving parents who encouraged my brother and I to look beyond race. They taught us to look deeper into the person’s values, character, heart, beliefs and moral compass. In my heart I thought they would be happiest if I brought home a Haitian husband, but they truly just wanted me to be happy. When I first started dating Dan, I was excited and nervous to tell my parents about him. I know my parents always said they would love whomever I loved, but didn’t fully believe them. I mean, I had never brought a white man home before! So one day when I was talking to my mom I shared the news. “Mom, I met someone… I should tell you 2 things about him. He’s white and he’s much older than me.” I remember the silence that followed. What was she thinking? Finally after a long pause finally she said, Ok, but tell me about who he is as a person. At that moment, I knew what I always knew. My parents would live up to their word and love the man I was falling in love with.

To know Dan is to love Dan. When I met him I saw his heart and I saw his essence and very quickly our hearts intertwined. I know it sounds a little cheese-ball but it’s true. It was so natural, it felt organic and right and I’ve been bathing and basking in that love ever since. As you know in New Hampshire it’s difficult, and who would’ve thought I would’ve married a man from New Hampshire, but hey, here we are! Dan is my soulmate in all things.

Forson: We see the world changing, becoming gradually, one step forward, two steps back. How has this strengthened your songwriting together? Do you find there’s more conviction in your intent because there’s a call for music with regard to these times. The pain is great. The suffering is there. People need love. People need to be heard.

Dan: I think working quickly during the song series helped us realize that simplicity and sincerity go a long way when it comes to songwriting. It’s so easy to overthink things, but when it’s two in the afternoon and you know you have to put something out by the end of the day, it makes it possible to stay two steps ahead of the brain. For us that worked well. And the main thing was to write songs that said what we wanted to say. We wanted the songs to be like a newspaper or the radio station we listened to: entertaining but full of news and emotion.

Claudia: Nina Simone said it best. “An artist’s duty, as far as I’m concerned, is to reflect the times. I think that is true of painters, sculptors, poets, musicians. As far as I’m concerned, it’s their choice, but I CHOOSE to reflect the times and situations in which I find myself. That, to me, is my duty. And at this crucial time in our lives, when everything is so desperate, when everyday is a matter of survival, I don’t think you can help but be involved. Young people, black and white, know this. That’s why they’re so involved in politics. We will shape and mold this country or it will not be molded and shaped at all anymore. So I don’t think you have a choice. How can you be an artist and NOT reflect the times? That to me is the definition of an artist.”

This is the time for us to use the platforms we have to shed light and speak truth on all that is happening in our world. There’s a whole lot pain plaguing our nation right now. And to me songwriting seems to be a natural way to speak on the here and now. In these 200 days of the SISS, songs have been pouring out of Dan and I. I am certain that this daily discipline and practice of showing up musically everyday has sharpened our musical muscle. I don’t think the songs would’ve been written had we not committed to putting out a song every day. So I think in that practice we got really sharp and our skills definitely improved.

Forson: Dan, you’ve been politically aware for a long time. Talk to me about your Constructive White Conversation group and your push for anti-racism.

Dan: This is big for me. I know I could have lived my whole life with no sense of systemic racism, or the caste system, or whatever you want to call it. And I never would have been able to claim anything like real humanity.

What happened was that I had a conversation with my best friend Mike Feldstein about twenty years ago, and it set me on a path towards anti-racism. There’s no way I’d be able to be in a healthy interracial relationship if I wasn’t trying to stay engaged in it today. Constructive White Conversations is a welcoming entry point for white folks who want to start looking at race, racism, white supremacy, and anti-racism with other white folks. In my opinion, I can’t be particularly useful out in the multiracial world unless I’ve taken the time to work through my whiteness. I think this is true for most white folks. And it’s a process!

CWC is just one piece of the anti-racism puzzle but it’s a solid one. We started it in Brooklyn about nine years ago and now there are 7 different gatherings a month, all on Zoom. We have people from all around the USA and Canada joining in. I don’t think the communal aspect of this comes naturally to most of us, but I think it’s crucial. So I invite any white folks reading this to sign up to join us at a meeting. Come as you are. This is a supportive, non-judgemental group of people.

Forson: I personally want to take this time to thank you, Dan, for helping me to rediscover my talent for making art. Your words to me have been right-on at a time I’ve been in need for such encouragement.

Dan: Oh man, we love your artwork. As soon as we saw it we flipped and wanted more. Thank you for putting it up on social media. It always makes us happy. Let your light shine, brother Kofi!!

Forson: And Claudia, to see you, a black woman with a Haitian background, so enriched in your diverse love for music and song, as well as performance, is so very much appreciated.

Claudia: Thank you Kofi and I’m really grateful that this series has allowed me to get to know you and for you to get to know me, and I just really appreciate you asking us to be a part of this interview. It’s been a tremendous honor to answer these questions and to reflect on these deep questions that you’ve been asking, so thank you.

Forson: Well, until one day we meet at my mother’s for a bowl of fufu and light soup, I’ll continue to enjoy your Social Isolation Song Series.

Dan: Thank you for being so supportive and enthusiastic and for being a friend when it mattered most!

Claudia: Thank you, brother!

Dan + Claudia Zanes website→

Social Isolation Song Series→

CLEO Soaps→

Constructive White Conversations→

Kofi Forson is writer, poet and playwright living in New York City. He blends his love of cinematic art, poetry and philosophy with journalism through in-depth formatted interviews with Neo-Expressionist New York artists, musicians, models, Hollywood celebrity and reviews of books, and art movements like Brexart. He has written for New York Arts Magazine, Whitehot Magazine, Talent, Armseye, Poetrybay, D/RAILED and Gainsayer.